GeneralVortex06

Well... The Half Life subreddit just went insane. Poor bastards overdosed on hopium.

TheGrandEmperor

Is there any hero that you write as villain, or villain that you write as hero? 
          
          For example. For my fanfic, I'm planning in Ghira being a villain. Basically in this fanfic Kali was a human that died at the hands of the White fang (In this case, Ilia). Ghira would kill Ilia (Since she didn't obtain redemption). 
          
          Ghira would proceed to have a new ideology where he perceives that humans and faunus can't coexist together. So for both to live and prosper, he desires to divide them. That is, make the faunus live in Menagerie. In this fanfic, Menagerie is the richest land in Dust. 
          
          Ghira then makes the **Black fang**, an organization composed by faunus that share his mentality and want to force the faunus to go to Menagerie, or at least convince them. 
          
          Ghira, then allied with some rogue elements of the society to create his dream. 
          For example. He allies with the racist Cordovin since she also wants to force faunus to go to Menagerie. He allies with the villains of RWBY: Arrowfell. And he also allies with Roman Torchwick (in my fanfic, he is the leader of Spider and survived the fall of Beacon). 
          
          He opposes Ruby's group and Salem at the same time. 
          
          But tell me, do you do something similar?

Cosmicadventurer22

What importance do you give to the criminal underworld? 
          
          Yep, I returned. Leaving the subject we all know ASIDE. 
          
          I wanted to ask about this. For example, I read a post on reddit about what if Roman became the leader of Spider. For example, after the death of Lil' Miss Malachite before the beginning of the series. Or surviving the fall of Beacon, with Melanie and Miltia dying, with Lil Miss Malachite dying at the hands of Winter... Then, Roman would return to Mistral and become the leader of Spider. 
          
          I was thinking in that scenario. He could have saved Adam in Haven, preventing the White fang from being trapped. 
          Spider could have also been a source of resources for White fang. 
          
          Let's remember that Lil' Miss Malachite was the second most powerful person of the kingdom (Only behind Leonardo). With Spider and Leonardo under her control, Salem could do a lot of damage. 
          
          As a matter of fact, Adam, Roman and Leonardo together could have enough power to make a revolution. 
          Just think: With his attack Adam forces the council to declare state of emergency. The faunus get enraged by that, the White fang recruits them. 
          With Spider and the White fang receiving information from Leonardo, they strike in the kingdom's bases. 
          And at the end, they manage to overthrow the government. Of course, Leonardo would sign a treaty giving the political power to the White fang. 
          
          Roman could then become the leader of the new mistralian underworld. 
          
          But, those are only my ideas. What importance do you give to that elements. 
          A crime organization is not an army, but we know that they were running things in the slums of the capital for years. Even wearing uniforms. 
          And in Vale, they controlled the Dust market. 
          
          Roman could corner the Dust market and become the main supplier, giving resources to the White fang and distributing that to their supporters.

56bruno56

@Cosmicadventurer22 I have this character who used to be the leader of the Mantle mafia. He was the leader of a pro-monarchy paramilitary organization.
            He sold marijuana and cocaine to the faunus and the people of Atlas City.
            This was to finance his eventual coup.
            
            In addition, he controlled an extensive corruption network involving the Atlas army and the Mantle police. Basically, he was one of the most powerful men in the kingdom. But a police officer (my OC) was able to unravel the conspiracy and killed him.
            The rest of the organization went into hiding. It is said that they are still there, plotting.
            
            That's the background for the fanfic.
            
            I also have other OCs, like the criminal organization Arachnea, a triad of spider faunus that controls the opium trade in southern Mistral. And Bjorn, the Faunus polar bear criminal organization that controls cocaine trafficking in northern Mistral.
            
            They are allied with White fang and Hana Guild (a criminal organization from RWBY: Grimm campaign).
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TheGrandEmperor

@Cosmicadventurer22 Oh, you mean the post made by Overpower pilot. 
            Good friend of mine. 
            
            Anyway, personally I don't decide yet. Part of me wants to kill Roman during fall of beacon because I don't know if I could handle his character. Besides I could use Neo as the empress of the underworld in her attempt to avenge him. 
            Other part of me, wants to keep him alive. He is charismatic and if someone has to rule the new crime empire, it must be him. 
            
            Also, there is this faction that tries to provoke the division between humans and faunus... and isn't let by Salem. And well, the criminals could help with that. 
            
            
            Still, I'm not convinced.
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TheGrandEmperor

How do you guys write bigoted characters? I mean, for example, human supremacist characters? How empathetic do you make them? 
          
          For example, I have Helene Braune. The leader of the Human Fraternity. A terrorist human supremacist organization. Since they replace the role of the White fang during the first volumes, Helene Braun allies with Cinder and her minions. 
          She let her troops be commanded by Roman Torchwick. 
          Her troops liberated Grimm in Vale during the Breach. And they released Grimm into the Academy.
          
          She replaces the role of the White fang Lieutenant. She fights Weiss in the train, telling her about how (From her point of view) her family (The Schnee) are race traitors. Since Jacques made deals with a faunus who was the city council manager of Vale. Yes, in this scenario the human fraternity is so fanatical that they consider people like Jacques "faunus-lovers". 
          
          Helene Braun also participated in the fall of Beacon, she fought against students and Atlas soldiers. At the end, she was executed by Adam Taurus. (Who was also secretly allied with Cinder). 
          
          Helene Braun was once a victim of an abusive faunus stepfather who hurt her. That's why she doesn't like faunus. Or better said, she doesn't want the faunus to have power over her ever again. 
          When she joined the police department, she found herself under a faunus officer. After receiving her first paycheck, she resigned from the police, killed the faunus officer and disappeared. Before that, she burned her house and took the money of the insurance. 
          With that money, she funded Human Fraternity once she joined them. 
          
          When Adam finally killed her, she had flashbacks of her stepfather abusing her. 
          
          Her original plan was to create such a toxic scenario that would force the faunus of Vale to go to Menagerie. 
          
          Her semblance allows her to get stronger as much as she gets angry. Her knuckles (The ones of her gloves) have fire dust. 
          
          
          https://imgur.com/a/zdypvZi

Olympiatookmysoul

@TheGrandEmperor 
            For most of the Crusaders? No empathy at all, they made their choose. Molay is almost completely detached from reality. He is a cowardly madman who targets those who cannot defend themselves, he is a  narcissist with a savior-complex. His right hand William is probably even worse. He is also a psychotic narcissist, but instead of a savior complex, he is just there for his own amusement. A sadist who didn’t even view his victims as living beings, but as objects, as playthings. Calling Fanus “Things” and “It”    The only Crusader that I’d give any sympathy to, is Cardin. Who didn’t really get a choice in joining, and slowly becomes disillusioned with his Uncle before inevitably turning on him and renouncing Molay’s views.
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TheGrandEmperor

@Olympiatookmysoul How empathetic and sympathetic do you write them? And, what do you want to represent with them?
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TheGrandEmperor

@GeneralVortex06 Are they allies of Jacques? I mean, what do they think of him and the SDC?
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GeneralVortex06

The Human Nationalist League:
          Formed: Unknown
          Current Leader: Jason Tidal
          Ideology: Far-right, Human supremacism, anti-faunus sentiment, authoritarianism, Vale Nationalism. 
          Allegiance: 3rd party faction, not aligned with the Academies, but not working with Cinder's group. 
          Description: Originally starting off as a violent, rascist street gang, the Human Nationalist League would attempt to become seen as a legitimate political entity by using "Peaceful" marches, posters and grand speeches to get their message across instead of words. This was done under Jason Tidal, a young yet pursuasive and dramatic speaker, who personally leads the marches across Vale. Don't let this mistake you, despite being accepted as a political party, they are still street thugs at heart and often engage in street brawls with faunus and human counter-protestors. Infamously known for placing razors behind propaganda stickers so if someone tries to tear the sticker down, they will get cut. The reason they haven't been banned is because there are several rich humans with connection to Vale politicans keeping them from being banned. 
          Despite this, mainstream politics in Vale don't like them but also fear they're growing popularity. The HNL take advantage of White Fang attacks to boost their popularity, as well as conspiracy theories that faunus are carrying diseases. 
          One of the League's biggest opponents other than faunus political groups, is Headmaster Ozpin of Beacon who has used his position as councilor to prevent the League from growing further, fearing that their anger may draw more Grimm attacks across Vale and cause relations between humans and faunus in Vale to fall further. 
          
          Here's a the group that appears in my newest story, the ones inspired by the real life National Front. They will appear occasionally in my stories, often to show the rascism against faunus more explicitly and to increase political tension in Vale.

56bruno56

@GeneralVortex06 @Olympiatookmysoul  I know that no one asked, but I wanted to say what would Black Samurai of them. 
            They would see them as something pathetic initially. Just a bunch of pretenders that tried to be tough, but are just gangsters. 
            Black Samurai would even get to see them as petty criminals. 
            
            Once they are a party, Black Samurai could be more interested. Despite being ultra-nationalists, they believe in alliances, so they could try to make an alliance with them. 
            They could use their contacts with the Mistral Trading Company to fund them. 
            Once in power, they could manipulate the democracy to follow their interests. 
            
            But in general, they wouldn't see them as equals, but as puppets. 
            
            Black Samurai is more a force of order and a military organization rather than a political party. They follow their goals but they believe more into a big strength to obtain their goals. Though they can also depend on manipulation.
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Olympiatookmysoul

@GeneralVortex06 
            Honestly if they take after the O9A (You are talking about the spooky NN’s that are almost certainly High 98% of the time) then Merry Molay and the spicy Cross gang are probably gonna have problems with them (I’m assuming Satin in this case is the Dark Brother.)
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GeneralVortex06

@Olympiatookmysoul Yeah, I expected that. My other group, the Brotherhood of Humanity would probably get along better with The Crusaders than the HNL. Both are cultish terrorist groups, and both have similar ideologies, although the Brotherhood are more like the O9A. So who knows? Maybe they see each other as rivals due to silently differing religious views and methods?
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TheGrandEmperor

An idea of ​​a faction replacing the White Fang during the first few volumes.
          
          I don't mean replacing them completely, just during the first three volumes in terms of the actions they take. In this case, Cinder approached Adam Taurus and recruited him and the White Fang.
          But she also approached Helene Braun, the leader of the human supremacist organization Human Fraternity.
          
          They would be the ones who helped Roman steal Dust.
          Why does Human Fraternity do this? The Vale council manager is a Faunus who made deals with the SDC.
          Human Fraternity hates Jacques and the Vale government for allying with Faunus.
          
          Remember that Vale is a kingdom with low levels of racism.
          They would even be the ones who released Grimm in Vale City, as well as in Breach. In general, you could compare them to real-life supremacist groups.
          
          However, everything changes with the fall of Vale. There, the Human Fraternity releases Grimm in Beacon in order to overthrow Ozpin and the rest of the Vale government.
          But Adam and the White Fang also appear.
          
          Adam appears and murders all the members of the Human Fraternity along with his soldiers.
          
          So Adam also participates in the fall of Beacon.
          Cinder and Adam's plan was to let the Human Fraternity act freely, so that later the White Fang could appear, kill them, and present themselves as the heroes.
          
          Obviously, only Adam and a few other White Fang officers would know the truth about this scheme. Few would know that Roman and the Human Fraternity were allies of Cinder.
          In fact, after the fall of Beacon, Adam would be in charge of exterminating the remnants of the Human Fraternity in Vale.

GeneralVortex06

@TheGrandEmperor Cool ideas, and it certainly would give the White Fang more of a dramatic entrance, not to mention it will show that they are actually soldiers, and not some weak street thugs like the shows handles them as.
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TheGrandEmperor

And well, that's it. I feel that this could help with some issues, like not having our heroines killing members of an oppressed minority so early in the story. 
            In the early volumes, the villain should be simpler to hate.
            The White Fang should be given more depth (showing that there is indeed a strong human supremacist element).
            And Adam and the White Fang should be made a more powerful villain, considering they were able to destroy the previous one.  
            
            https://imgur.com/a/IIUCNPg
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56bruno56

What is your own favorite faction? I mean, what faction that you created was the favorite? 
          
          For example, I have "Black Samurai." It's a faction antagonistic to the White Fang (and terrorist groups in Mistral in general).
          While one might think they're just a group of human terrorists, it's more complicated than that.
          
          They were created by a member of the Mistral council (Councilman Huangse De Gallio) as a force to destroy the terrorist groups plaguing Mistral.
          
          Obviously, De Gallio is a human supremacist. In fact, his family had investments in the Mistral Trading Company (which also exploited Faunus). He sold all his shares to finance the Black Samurai.
          
          Black Samurai is a military force with anti-terrorist policing functions.
          They are led by Heise De Nero. Heise is an enigmatic leader, shrouded in mystery. He has prosthetic arms and legs. He wields a sword that he uses to fight and has the semblance to create force fields. Heise has five commanders, who are also shrouded in mystery. All members of the organization wear masks. 
          Obviously, the leaders have more elaborate masks/helmets.
          One of the members is also the leader of the Mistral police's anti-terrorist division. This gives Black Samurai, and therefore Huangse De Giallo, even more power.
          
          Black Samurai is no less brutal than the torture and police brutality inflicted on Faunus. Most of its members are human supremacists and ultra-nationalists from Mistral.
          They undergo rigorous training that allows them to use auras. They have superior equipment, even better than that of the Mistral police.
          After the embargo, they began using gunpowder weapons (which exist in my fanfic) to conserve Dust.

GeneralVortex06

@56bruno56 Basically, the Human Nationalist Party in Vale got into power shortly after the Haven incident. Fear of faunus had increased, which caused for more authoritarian measures but it was still a democracy. Then when Atlas fell, the HNP imposed an emergency law which gave them more power and forming a coalition with other Right-wing parties. Eventually this spirals into a dictatorship under the HNP, wearing the mask of a democracy. Those that try to expose the truth in Vale are disappeared (Glynda was forced to flee due to her being one of those trying to expose the truth) as for the faunus, their rights are slowly being stripped as the propaganda justifies it as security. With the rise of Black Talon, it allows the Vale dictatorship to have faunus segregated from humans, where they are secretly enslaved and any form of resistance ends in execution. Again, the dictatorship are still trying to wear the mask of democracy but they've fully imbraced their totaltarianism. Eventually, the new generation of Huntsmen/Huntresses with help from RWBY expose the truth, causing a conflict in Vale between those trying to free it, the dictatorship and a small Black Talon cell.
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56bruno56

@GeneralVortex06 What you tell me is fascinating, so they are some sort of religious fanatics, always cool to watch. 
            How is that of Vale under dictatorship? I mean, I alway associated Vale with democracy, so I'm surprised of that.
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TheGrandEmperor

@56bruno56 Probably it would be... Human Fraternity or Alsius kingdom. 
            
            Human Fraternity is like the opposition of the White fang. A Human supremacist terrorist organization based on Vale. Their goal is to force faunus to go to Menagerie. 
            They see Jacques or the Vale government as "Too soft" with the faunus. Jacques gives them jobs and the Vale government at least theoretically lets them stay as equals with the humans. 
            
            In my fanfic, they would replace the White fang during the first three volumes of the series. That is, they would be the ones to steal Dust from the SDC, the ones to liberate Grimm in Vale and Beacon, etc. At the end, they end up being murdered by the White fang during the Fall of Beacon. Adam secretly allied with Cinder's faction. 
            
            
            Alsius was created by the corrupt elements of the Atlas society, military and government on the settlements of Solitas (In my fanfic, those settlements aren't just villages, are actually cities). After being discovered the shady deals of Sleet, Camilla, Jacques and other elements by Ironwood he decides to arrest them. But they escape creating their own kingdom in Solitas. 
            
            There is a Cold War between both after the Fall of Beacon. Salem's inner circle allies with Alsius trying to provoke a war. 
            
            
            While Human Fraternity is human supremacist, Alsius is also racist but in a lower level. (Imagine it like southern states during Jim Crow times, not like the Nazis).
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GeneralVortex06

I may have mentioned this backstory in a now deleted story, but I've always had an idea for tweaking Blake's backstory:
          First of all, she is still Ghira and Kali's daughter, but there's a bit of complication. You see shortly after Blake's birth the Brotherhood of Humanity launched a full-scale attack on Menagarie (Secretly backed by a few board members of the SDC may I say). Despite the island's guards putting up decent resistance it wasn't enough and it looked like the Brotherhood were going to get their way, so Blake's parents decide to send Blake and several other faunus children away from Menagarie to Mistral (The closest Kingdom). Blake is then taken into an orphanage and basically grows up there. Being a faunus, she is of course bullied by the human kids and even the adults working at the orphanage. Blake would quickly see the peaceful White Fang's protests and joins them in her youth. She still get's bullied and hurt but she's determined to try and make a difference for the faunus (This injustice fully sparking her faunus advocacy). Eventually on one day, during a normal White Fang protes the Brotherhood attacked the incident. Blake get's cornered by a member of the Brotherhood, but is saved by a young Adam. The two befriend each other and come across Sienna who notes Blake as Ghira and Kali's daughter and the two are then sent to Menagarie. Blake reunites with her parents, but she's seen and experienced what her people go through, and is willing to continue advocating for faunus rights.
          There, we keep her parents but also make it so she's not fully an island princess, and instead actually has experienced some harsh anti-faunus sentiment, making her more drived to help the faunus. It also makes the relationship between Blake and Adam more tragic, as Adam was her first proper friend and the one who saved her from the Brotherhood.

TheGrandEmperor

@GeneralVortex06 @Olympiatookmysoul 
            
            There is also the socio-political factor. Adam feels a bit like a stereotype of the violent activist. Supremacist and abuser. Which can have some problematic implications considering how according to Barbara, the faunus can be compared with the black population of the 50s. 
            I mean, there is Magneto, but he is more nuanced. And Adam is near pure evil. 
            
            But leaving politics aside. I think that the main problem is that Blake lacks a political enemy that makes her question her own ideologies. Adam could be that ideological rival. I mean, there is Ilia but she end up being redeemed. There is Sienna but she and Blake never interacted. 
            
            So, Adam... Many say that part of the charm of the character is being so hate-able. But I think he end up being one dimensional. And if you want hate-able characters there are others, not the face of the only faunus rights organization. Why not make Corsac and Fennec these hate-able characters instead? 
            
            
            The way I'm writing him in my fanfic is more similar to Floch Forster. Someone who is a fanatic, an extremist. But also someone who cares about his people and his soldiers. I want to make Adam a good-intentioned extremist.
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Olympiatookmysoul

@GeneralVortex06 
            Exactly.  I always thought their relationship would have been more interesting if it was more older brother/younger sister. An idea I had on my end of things was Adam first meets Blake when she’s sent to the Fang for protection after a series of Crusader attacks on Menagire. There she meets Adam (She’s like, 13-14-ish and he’s 15-16-ish) and he’s assigned as her bodyguard, from there the two become friends and Adam trains her to defend herself. Again the closest thing to a romantic relationship they have is Blake have a tonnage crush that she pretty quickly grows out of (after she discovers rule 34 and unlocks her freakiness) things then kinda just got out of hand from there with Adam’s teenage angst and PTSD induce fits of rage. It was kind of ment to show that Adam and Gabriel were on mirror paths in life. Both fond paternal mentor figures (Roman and Sienna) both found their callings in fighting and killing, both found sister figures to bond with (Neo and Blake) and both would unknowingly find themselves wrapped up in Cinder and Salem’s plot to attack Beacon where they would meet for the first time in 11 years.  
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GeneralVortex06

Also to hell with the bloody boyfriend/girlfriend relationship between Blake and Adam. I recognise that was their canon relationship, and I recognise Adam was toxic in it, but that just messed with both characters, and while I can somewhat understand why the writers went that way (They wanted to try write something against abuse) we already have the whole political difference, racial inequality and violence vs pacifism between Blake and Adam, and adding the abuse stuff I fear just brings too much. 
            In this backstory of mine, at the most, Blake had a one-sided crush on Adam but the bull faunus never felt the same thing to her. Instead they were best friends in a way Anakin and Ahsoka were in Star Wars.
            Also this backstory would mean Blake continues onto faunus advocacy across the story as well as dealing with guilt of not being strong enough to stop Adam. Instead of forgetting to help the faunus in Atlas/Mantle. 
            Anyways, that's my idea, kinda the half-baked ramblings of a 19 year old, but it's my idea.
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Olympiatookmysoul

Just a quick question, are you familiar with the Victor Hugo Novel “Les Miserables” or its Musical adaptation?

Olympiatookmysoul

@GeneralVortex06  Okay. For a while I had the idea of a character based on one of the characters in that story. I don’t really think he’d fit into the CSR continuity as that roster is pretty much full. But it was just food for thought.
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GeneralVortex06

@Olympiatookmysoul I know of it, yes, haven't really seen it though. I think I know the basic stuff though.
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