GeneralVortex06

So, you may have seen that I have a new White Fang character called Niles Fenrir? Yeah, I know, edgy name, but it suits him. He's not a major villain like Adam or Cinder, he's more of a supporting villain, but that doesn't take away his brutality. He's also more mysterious as barely anyone knows what he looks like, but people know he exists due to the violent scenes he leaves behind. His reputation and unknown look has caused him to be given the nickname "Spøkelse" meaning ghost or phantom. 
          	Unlike Adam who is more of a commander/soldier, Niles is an assassin who secretely yet violently kills important targets of the White Fang. In a way he's a bit like Tyrian, but less insane, and he's more of an arrogant sociopath than a cackling maniac. He doesn't exactly care for politics and isn't really a leader, simply enjoying killing his people's enemies and spreading his infamy, wanting to use his reputation of a remorseless killer to make the human elite bend to the White Fang's will. If Adam was the monster humans feared in the day, Niles would be the one they feared at night. Adam is the tip of the White Fang iceberg, Niles is the bottom of it. Adam is ruthless, but kills quickly, Niles likes to make his target suffer, to increase their fear of him and the White Fang. You get my point. 
          	He's much less sympathetic than Adam, Ilia or Sienna, being more pure evil along the lines of Corsac and Fennec. 
          	Weiss is so far the only human who has survived Niles, and now knows what he looks like.

TheGrandEmperor

@GeneralVortex06 I read there that the White fang took inspiration from the Ninjas. In this case, Niles Fenrir sounds like your typical ninja assassin. That's cool, adding variety. 
          	  
          	  I must be honest, in fanfics all of that of the underground, the terrorists and the criminals is the most interesting for me. So Weiss not only having a rivalry with Adam, but with many members of the organization is great.
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TheGrandEmperor

Is there any villain/threat you would have liked to see during the times between the original trilogy and the sequels? 
          
          A very specific question, but I thought something like that would be necessary. I've been thinking about this, and it's a concept I might eventually use. Who knows?
          
          Let's imagine a Mandalorian Twilek. She would have been raised by a Mandalorian clan that settled on Ryloth. As she grew up, she and her clan would become bounty hunters. Eventually, she would connect with other Mandalorian clans scattered throughout the galaxy. We would see Mandalorians of different species. The Twilek would become the leader of these diverse Mandalorians. 
          Eventually, she would challenge Bo-Katan to a duel for the Darksaber, which she would win. 
          The Mandalorian Twilek would then become Mandalore, the necromancer, because she was able to resurrect Mandalorian culture.
          She would lead the scattered Mandalorians around the galaxy and recruit many more to her culture. Once she had obtained funds through smuggling, she would lead a holy war campaign against the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant (eventually the First Order). 
          
          There, she would face a young officer, Armitage Hux, and Padawan Ben Solo.
          
          In the end, Mandalore the necromancer would be defeated by a combination of the young officers of the Imperial Remnant and Luke Skywalker's Jedi Academy.
          Ben Solo would kill the Mandalorian Twilek under Snoke's influence, hastening his fall to the dark side.
          
          This war would serve to give battle experience to the young officers of the Imperial Remnant, as well as to Ben Solo.
          
          This war would also discredit the New Republic, making it appear weak, while exposing the corruption and incompetence of the old officers of the Imperial Remnant.
          Many citizens would come to admire the empire's iron fist, and the young officers led by Snoke would stage a coup, thus creating the First Order.

TheGrandEmperor

@GeneralVortex06 It sounds logical. I always thought Kylo Ren worked as someone pragmatic. 
            That is, in theory, Kylo Ren would be on a path of redemption. So it makes sense that he's less evil than Snoke. 
            
            The Fel Empire (from Legends) was more inclusive of aliens. So I also thought Kylo's empire should be like that.
            Besides, it would serve to differentiate him from Vader and the old Empire.
            Plus, it means more muscle and intelligence on his side.
            
            How would Kylo Ren deal with the promises to the Neo-Separatists? I mean, the original Separatists had ideals against economic regulation and high taxes.
            The Galactic Empire actually nationalized some of these companies.
            
            But well, the First Order also forged alliances with wealthy individuals, as seen in The Last Jedi.
            What I mean is: Would the Neo-Separatists be given their own region to govern autonomously?
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GeneralVortex06

@TheGrandEmperor Well my version of the First Order has two phases. Snoke's First Order, which is human-centric but they tolerate some aliens as civilians or servants. Kylo Ren's First Order however is more pragmatic, and so he allows some aliens to join the First Order officer corps and serve as spies. The Neo-Separatists also feel like they'd be in a better position if they aid the First Order and also it's the only way they'll be able to avenge Maxus (Who they see as a martyr to their cause).
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TheGrandEmperor

@GeneralVortex06 Hmm... interesting. I thought about a villain before the sequels because I feel those 30 years of "peace" had to be filled with something. Something that would allow our heroes and villains to shine.
            
            Your ideas sound fantastic, though I'm a bit curious. For example, the Empire and the First Order are known for being human-centric, but the Outer Rim is full of aliens. How did the First Order manage to gain the support of the Neo-Separatists?
            Or did they only get the support of humans? Or perhaps you plan for this First Order to be more inclusive? 
            Perhaps the First Order organizes paramilitary groups of aliens?
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GeneralVortex06

So, you may have seen that I have a new White Fang character called Niles Fenrir? Yeah, I know, edgy name, but it suits him. He's not a major villain like Adam or Cinder, he's more of a supporting villain, but that doesn't take away his brutality. He's also more mysterious as barely anyone knows what he looks like, but people know he exists due to the violent scenes he leaves behind. His reputation and unknown look has caused him to be given the nickname "Spøkelse" meaning ghost or phantom. 
          Unlike Adam who is more of a commander/soldier, Niles is an assassin who secretely yet violently kills important targets of the White Fang. In a way he's a bit like Tyrian, but less insane, and he's more of an arrogant sociopath than a cackling maniac. He doesn't exactly care for politics and isn't really a leader, simply enjoying killing his people's enemies and spreading his infamy, wanting to use his reputation of a remorseless killer to make the human elite bend to the White Fang's will. If Adam was the monster humans feared in the day, Niles would be the one they feared at night. Adam is the tip of the White Fang iceberg, Niles is the bottom of it. Adam is ruthless, but kills quickly, Niles likes to make his target suffer, to increase their fear of him and the White Fang. You get my point. 
          He's much less sympathetic than Adam, Ilia or Sienna, being more pure evil along the lines of Corsac and Fennec. 
          Weiss is so far the only human who has survived Niles, and now knows what he looks like.

TheGrandEmperor

@GeneralVortex06 I read there that the White fang took inspiration from the Ninjas. In this case, Niles Fenrir sounds like your typical ninja assassin. That's cool, adding variety. 
            
            I must be honest, in fanfics all of that of the underground, the terrorists and the criminals is the most interesting for me. So Weiss not only having a rivalry with Adam, but with many members of the organization is great.
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Olympiatookmysoul

Hey, was doing some brainstorming a while back and was coming up from some scenes between Levi and Tyrian. One of my ideas was for Tyrian to have this big monologue about how he was tortured and had body disfigured. Specifically I’m leaning towards this version of Tyrian to be inspired by Mick Foley, a wrestler from the 90’s who portrayed a character called Mankind. Here’s one of his promo’s, and honestly, some of these lines wouldn’t sound out of place  wing said by Tyrian. Have a look.
          
          https://youtu.be/h617p222AYI?si=JxPygSiyrwWB5BAj

Olympiatookmysoul

@TheGrandEmperor 
            I suppose so. Levi and Tyrian where childhood friends and teammates at Beacon. (Alongside Ironwood and Goodwitch, collectively known as Team GILT (Guilt) ) Tyrian was captured by The Crusaders and tortured, Levi tried to rescue him but he was too late, Tyrian had been tortured into insanity by the time he arrived. Tyrian would be held in a psych ward for a few months before escaping. Levi, who had been walking a tightrope over a full mental breakdown due to his marriage with Glynda deteriorating and already traumatized my seeing his friend in such a state, was given the task of tracking him down. It didn’t end well as Levi was hospitalized after a brief skirmish between the two. When recovered from his injuries he was ordered to continue his hunt and given explicit orders to kill Tyrian. Levi, who was now falling into substance abuse to cope with his injures and stress, refused and stormed out of Ozpin’s office. This was the last straw for him, as Glynda refused to tell him the true nature of her work with Ozpin, leading to Levi to think that she was having an affair with him. Levi would go off the grid for five years until he re-emerged as a founding member of CSR.
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GeneralVortex06

@Olympiatookmysoul Wow, you're right, that actually really does work for him.
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TheGrandEmperor

Is there any hero that you write as villain, or villain that you write as hero? 
          
          For example. For my fanfic, I'm planning in Ghira being a villain. Basically in this fanfic Kali was a human that died at the hands of the White fang (In this case, Ilia). Ghira would kill Ilia (Since she didn't obtain redemption). 
          
          Ghira would proceed to have a new ideology where he perceives that humans and faunus can't coexist together. So for both to live and prosper, he desires to divide them. That is, make the faunus live in Menagerie. In this fanfic, Menagerie is the richest land in Dust. 
          
          Ghira then makes the **Black fang**, an organization composed by faunus that share his mentality and want to force the faunus to go to Menagerie, or at least convince them. 
          
          Ghira, then allied with some rogue elements of the society to create his dream. 
          For example. He allies with the racist Cordovin since she also wants to force faunus to go to Menagerie. He allies with the villains of RWBY: Arrowfell. And he also allies with Roman Torchwick (in my fanfic, he is the leader of Spider and survived the fall of Beacon). 
          
          He opposes Ruby's group and Salem at the same time. 
          
          But tell me, do you do something similar?

TheGrandEmperor

@Olympiatookmysoul How about you? For example, in your fanfic it seems that Ironwood is going to be a baddie since the beginning, helping the Atlas crusaders. In canon while he was shady since volume 2, he became a villain in Volume 7 (Gravity).
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GeneralVortex06

@TheGrandEmperor Yeah, true. That version of him I wrote when I was 15 and was inspired by various Adam redemption fanfics. So I wanted to make my own version. I'm even making a remake of that book, but hopefully better written and Adam's still a bit morally grey.
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TheGrandEmperor

@GeneralVortex06 Well, in some of your deleted fanfics it seemed like you wanted to make Adam a hero.
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Cosmicadventurer22

What importance do you give to the criminal underworld? 
          
          Yep, I returned. Leaving the subject we all know ASIDE. 
          
          I wanted to ask about this. For example, I read a post on reddit about what if Roman became the leader of Spider. For example, after the death of Lil' Miss Malachite before the beginning of the series. Or surviving the fall of Beacon, with Melanie and Miltia dying, with Lil Miss Malachite dying at the hands of Winter... Then, Roman would return to Mistral and become the leader of Spider. 
          
          I was thinking in that scenario. He could have saved Adam in Haven, preventing the White fang from being trapped. 
          Spider could have also been a source of resources for White fang. 
          
          Let's remember that Lil' Miss Malachite was the second most powerful person of the kingdom (Only behind Leonardo). With Spider and Leonardo under her control, Salem could do a lot of damage. 
          
          As a matter of fact, Adam, Roman and Leonardo together could have enough power to make a revolution. 
          Just think: With his attack Adam forces the council to declare state of emergency. The faunus get enraged by that, the White fang recruits them. 
          With Spider and the White fang receiving information from Leonardo, they strike in the kingdom's bases. 
          And at the end, they manage to overthrow the government. Of course, Leonardo would sign a treaty giving the political power to the White fang. 
          
          Roman could then become the leader of the new mistralian underworld. 
          
          But, those are only my ideas. What importance do you give to that elements. 
          A crime organization is not an army, but we know that they were running things in the slums of the capital for years. Even wearing uniforms. 
          And in Vale, they controlled the Dust market. 
          
          Roman could corner the Dust market and become the main supplier, giving resources to the White fang and distributing that to their supporters.

56bruno56

@Cosmicadventurer22 I have this character who used to be the leader of the Mantle mafia. He was the leader of a pro-monarchy paramilitary organization.
            He sold marijuana and cocaine to the faunus and the people of Atlas City.
            This was to finance his eventual coup.
            
            In addition, he controlled an extensive corruption network involving the Atlas army and the Mantle police. Basically, he was one of the most powerful men in the kingdom. But a police officer (my OC) was able to unravel the conspiracy and killed him.
            The rest of the organization went into hiding. It is said that they are still there, plotting.
            
            That's the background for the fanfic.
            
            I also have other OCs, like the criminal organization Arachnea, a triad of spider faunus that controls the opium trade in southern Mistral. And Bjorn, the Faunus polar bear criminal organization that controls cocaine trafficking in northern Mistral.
            
            They are allied with White fang and Hana Guild (a criminal organization from RWBY: Grimm campaign).
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TheGrandEmperor

@Cosmicadventurer22 Oh, you mean the post made by Overpower pilot. 
            Good friend of mine. 
            
            Anyway, personally I don't decide yet. Part of me wants to kill Roman during fall of beacon because I don't know if I could handle his character. Besides I could use Neo as the empress of the underworld in her attempt to avenge him. 
            Other part of me, wants to keep him alive. He is charismatic and if someone has to rule the new crime empire, it must be him. 
            
            Also, there is this faction that tries to provoke the division between humans and faunus... and isn't let by Salem. And well, the criminals could help with that. 
            
            
            Still, I'm not convinced.
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TheGrandEmperor

How do you guys write bigoted characters? I mean, for example, human supremacist characters? How empathetic do you make them? 
          
          For example, I have Helene Braune. The leader of the Human Fraternity. A terrorist human supremacist organization. Since they replace the role of the White fang during the first volumes, Helene Braun allies with Cinder and her minions. 
          She let her troops be commanded by Roman Torchwick. 
          Her troops liberated Grimm in Vale during the Breach. And they released Grimm into the Academy.
          
          She replaces the role of the White fang Lieutenant. She fights Weiss in the train, telling her about how (From her point of view) her family (The Schnee) are race traitors. Since Jacques made deals with a faunus who was the city council manager of Vale. Yes, in this scenario the human fraternity is so fanatical that they consider people like Jacques "faunus-lovers". 
          
          Helene Braun also participated in the fall of Beacon, she fought against students and Atlas soldiers. At the end, she was executed by Adam Taurus. (Who was also secretly allied with Cinder). 
          
          Helene Braun was once a victim of an abusive faunus stepfather who hurt her. That's why she doesn't like faunus. Or better said, she doesn't want the faunus to have power over her ever again. 
          When she joined the police department, she found herself under a faunus officer. After receiving her first paycheck, she resigned from the police, killed the faunus officer and disappeared. Before that, she burned her house and took the money of the insurance. 
          With that money, she funded Human Fraternity once she joined them. 
          
          When Adam finally killed her, she had flashbacks of her stepfather abusing her. 
          
          Her original plan was to create such a toxic scenario that would force the faunus of Vale to go to Menagerie. 
          
          Her semblance allows her to get stronger as much as she gets angry. Her knuckles (The ones of her gloves) have fire dust. 
          
          
          https://imgur.com/a/zdypvZi

Olympiatookmysoul

@TheGrandEmperor 
            For most of the Crusaders? No empathy at all, they made their choose. Molay is almost completely detached from reality. He is a cowardly madman who targets those who cannot defend themselves, he is a  narcissist with a savior-complex. His right hand William is probably even worse. He is also a psychotic narcissist, but instead of a savior complex, he is just there for his own amusement. A sadist who didn’t even view his victims as living beings, but as objects, as playthings. Calling Fanus “Things” and “It”    The only Crusader that I’d give any sympathy to, is Cardin. Who didn’t really get a choice in joining, and slowly becomes disillusioned with his Uncle before inevitably turning on him and renouncing Molay’s views.
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TheGrandEmperor

@Olympiatookmysoul How empathetic and sympathetic do you write them? And, what do you want to represent with them?
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TheGrandEmperor

@GeneralVortex06 Are they allies of Jacques? I mean, what do they think of him and the SDC?
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GeneralVortex06

The Human Nationalist League:
          Formed: Unknown
          Current Leader: Jason Tidal
          Ideology: Far-right, Human supremacism, anti-faunus sentiment, authoritarianism, Vale Nationalism. 
          Allegiance: 3rd party faction, not aligned with the Academies, but not working with Cinder's group. 
          Description: Originally starting off as a violent, rascist street gang, the Human Nationalist League would attempt to become seen as a legitimate political entity by using "Peaceful" marches, posters and grand speeches to get their message across instead of words. This was done under Jason Tidal, a young yet pursuasive and dramatic speaker, who personally leads the marches across Vale. Don't let this mistake you, despite being accepted as a political party, they are still street thugs at heart and often engage in street brawls with faunus and human counter-protestors. Infamously known for placing razors behind propaganda stickers so if someone tries to tear the sticker down, they will get cut. The reason they haven't been banned is because there are several rich humans with connection to Vale politicans keeping them from being banned. 
          Despite this, mainstream politics in Vale don't like them but also fear they're growing popularity. The HNL take advantage of White Fang attacks to boost their popularity, as well as conspiracy theories that faunus are carrying diseases. 
          One of the League's biggest opponents other than faunus political groups, is Headmaster Ozpin of Beacon who has used his position as councilor to prevent the League from growing further, fearing that their anger may draw more Grimm attacks across Vale and cause relations between humans and faunus in Vale to fall further. 
          
          Here's a the group that appears in my newest story, the ones inspired by the real life National Front. They will appear occasionally in my stories, often to show the rascism against faunus more explicitly and to increase political tension in Vale.

56bruno56

@GeneralVortex06 @Olympiatookmysoul  I know that no one asked, but I wanted to say what would Black Samurai of them. 
            They would see them as something pathetic initially. Just a bunch of pretenders that tried to be tough, but are just gangsters. 
            Black Samurai would even get to see them as petty criminals. 
            
            Once they are a party, Black Samurai could be more interested. Despite being ultra-nationalists, they believe in alliances, so they could try to make an alliance with them. 
            They could use their contacts with the Mistral Trading Company to fund them. 
            Once in power, they could manipulate the democracy to follow their interests. 
            
            But in general, they wouldn't see them as equals, but as puppets. 
            
            Black Samurai is more a force of order and a military organization rather than a political party. They follow their goals but they believe more into a big strength to obtain their goals. Though they can also depend on manipulation.
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Olympiatookmysoul

@GeneralVortex06 
            Honestly if they take after the O9A (You are talking about the spooky NN’s that are almost certainly High 98% of the time) then Merry Molay and the spicy Cross gang are probably gonna have problems with them (I’m assuming Satin in this case is the Dark Brother.)
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GeneralVortex06

@Olympiatookmysoul Yeah, I expected that. My other group, the Brotherhood of Humanity would probably get along better with The Crusaders than the HNL. Both are cultish terrorist groups, and both have similar ideologies, although the Brotherhood are more like the O9A. So who knows? Maybe they see each other as rivals due to silently differing religious views and methods?
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TheGrandEmperor

An idea of ​​a faction replacing the White Fang during the first few volumes.
          
          I don't mean replacing them completely, just during the first three volumes in terms of the actions they take. In this case, Cinder approached Adam Taurus and recruited him and the White Fang.
          But she also approached Helene Braun, the leader of the human supremacist organization Human Fraternity.
          
          They would be the ones who helped Roman steal Dust.
          Why does Human Fraternity do this? The Vale council manager is a Faunus who made deals with the SDC.
          Human Fraternity hates Jacques and the Vale government for allying with Faunus.
          
          Remember that Vale is a kingdom with low levels of racism.
          They would even be the ones who released Grimm in Vale City, as well as in Breach. In general, you could compare them to real-life supremacist groups.
          
          However, everything changes with the fall of Vale. There, the Human Fraternity releases Grimm in Beacon in order to overthrow Ozpin and the rest of the Vale government.
          But Adam and the White Fang also appear.
          
          Adam appears and murders all the members of the Human Fraternity along with his soldiers.
          
          So Adam also participates in the fall of Beacon.
          Cinder and Adam's plan was to let the Human Fraternity act freely, so that later the White Fang could appear, kill them, and present themselves as the heroes.
          
          Obviously, only Adam and a few other White Fang officers would know the truth about this scheme. Few would know that Roman and the Human Fraternity were allies of Cinder.
          In fact, after the fall of Beacon, Adam would be in charge of exterminating the remnants of the Human Fraternity in Vale.

GeneralVortex06

@TheGrandEmperor Cool ideas, and it certainly would give the White Fang more of a dramatic entrance, not to mention it will show that they are actually soldiers, and not some weak street thugs like the shows handles them as.
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TheGrandEmperor

And well, that's it. I feel that this could help with some issues, like not having our heroines killing members of an oppressed minority so early in the story. 
            In the early volumes, the villain should be simpler to hate.
            The White Fang should be given more depth (showing that there is indeed a strong human supremacist element).
            And Adam and the White Fang should be made a more powerful villain, considering they were able to destroy the previous one.  
            
            https://imgur.com/a/IIUCNPg
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