@sacrificialamb
had to take a long ass break ap classes frying my ass
having bpd makes it so hard to develop real feelings and thoughts on characters omg 😭 whiplash every two seconds
@sacrificialamb my middle school years was when I got diagnosed with also (if that’s what you’re tryna say). But omg that’s crazy how we relate in that aspect. Once again, thank you for sharing, I'm sure you're lovely 🩷🤍
@ashnicholette i relate to you sm omg! i got diagnosed with anxiety first, then ocd, then bpd pretty recently. they considered depression during my middle school years but rules it off as a serious case of heightened anxiety and nerves. nd i have zero drive, then i become obsessed with something, slowly (quickly) lose drive for that, then move onto the next thing. i heavily second the last part. knowing how to pest treat yourself should not be hundreds of dollars!
@sacrificialamb thank you for responding<3 and oh wow that’s interesting to hear. I felt the anger part and not being to get over it until I yell at them lmao. I cannot seem to let certain things go, which causes srs mood swings and overthinking. I’m pretty sure a lot of my symptoms are over-lapping with my anxiety and ocd (I’m diagnosed w generalized anxiety disorder and OCD, depression was on my chart but they took it off a while ago) but I get free appts with my insurance but I’ve been procrastinating and avoiding to actually go in to get re-diagnosed by an actual psych. I just go to a family pcp for a check up so he can give me my antidepressants I’m already on to manage my anger/anxiety and being lethargic all the time. I have no drive to do anything and when I do… I become obsessed w it , and I’ll stick with it for a while before I let it go and stop. But mental health care should never b so expensive ! Ugh it makes me so irritated. Like help us, help ourselves 😒
Ugh I can’t reply on the OG thread but, real on not being able to stand Nico, but what exactly about Josie is bird-like? I agree that Giana took way too much disrespect from Alessio but, I honestly thought Josie stood on business. She did deal with his bs but we have to remember that she grew up in a cult and Nico basically trapped her in his apartment. I personally find her character to be very emotionally strong given what she was forced to deal with.
@charookie it was mostly a joke honestly, and i do think she was a lot stronger than most would have been in her situation.
This is a very long think piece on celina, we were talking about this earlier, and since I'm rereading getaway I changed my mind on some things and I really wanted to share with youu
So I initially viewed celina as one dimensional, but I have now changed my mind. I don't think she is a one-dimensional character, but I think her dimensions are insufficiently dramatized. Her characterization in the book and her premise don't completely match. The latter told us that she is intelligent, manipulative, ruthless, power-hungry, and morally complex. And this particularly shows in the first two chapters. But then the actual narrative spends a lot more time showing us that she is defensive and emotionally avoidant, she doesn't like vulnerability, she pushes people away etc. Throughout the book, this second category becomes so dominant that it becomes harder to see the manipulative mastermind we were promised. Avoidance is a defense mechanism, not a complete personality, but the narrative treats as such, which ends up overshadowing celina's depth.
The thing is, she does have depth. But it isn't always externalized. Explicit characterization would be directly showing a trait through action. So there would be dramatic evidence that she is manipulative, for example. But what's happening with celina is more implicit. She is constantly analyzing people. She understands their weaknesses. She withholds information and views relationships strategically. The narrative gives us just enough information to conclude that without staging enough scenes where she actively deploys that manipulation.
For example, let's look at adrik. I would say that he has less depth as a character than celina, but his internal characterization is much more visible. So we see his internal conflict, him changing priorities, and the story gives him scenes that dramatize these things. So we don't have to excavate his psychology, it's being handed to us directly.
@maelovesyouu1 hii!! Zookah hasn't yet worked on it, but she answered a thread about the portrayal of flora's addiction (I believe it was yours) and said she took note of it for the edits/upcoming chapters. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I hope she stays true to her word! Concerning Flora, I agree with you almost entirely, especially the distinction between her altruism and self-erasure. And YES to the attentiveness. I was waiting for someone to talk about this. She is so attentive and so good at reading the room and cataloging people/situations, and using it to her advantage. Although I haven't seen her fully use it to her advantage and actually come out of a situation with the upper hand yet, which is extremely frustrating, and I'm hoping this will change. Hot take, but I value Flora's development and growth a lot more than the romance. Or rather, I'm looking forward to it more than the romance. I don't like how everything goes back to 'centering' enzo.
another aspect of flora’s character that could be explored so much more (and also contribute to world-building, which is currently ineffective too in my opinion) is her attentiveness. she intrinsically observes and documents about details on her surroundings, the people around her, and how both interact. her journals show us how her mental schemas of the world around her are essential to determine how she thinks, feels and acts (everyone’s understanding of the world does this, but i believe that this process is more *conscious* with flora since she’s been alienated by her peers for so long, and desperately strives to label and work around deficiencies. Or perhaps some neurodivergence?? Lolol).
i also see how her being focused on alcohol could fragment her awareness to her surroundings, but nonetheless… she doesn’t just get to withdraw from a place like bedlam, where passiveness is condemned.
Got tired of ranting but y’all get the gist
(HII @sacrifialamb !! SORRY FOR FLOODING UR BOARD!! I WANTED TO SEE THE ANALYSIS AND LOWK GOT CARRIED AWAY HERE </33)
@esmxralda_ y’all hold on… when has bazookah worked on the constructive criticism she gets? am i missing something OK on a nicer note… i adore the celina analysis, and a million percent agree w/ it! i have been saying that for a minute, as well. it’s my second time coming back to this bcz i lowk missed think pieces on conversation boards for a second there, but also because i have a similar thought about flora, that i delved into in a month old (or something?) think piece. her self-hatred/erasure is extremely loud, as opposed to her strong morals and sense of fairness (the depiction of has begun to improve as of late, but the narrative always moves back to banter with enzo or other subplots lol. i am still giving it time before i fully buy it). to make the matter worse, it is often misread by the readers as noble altruism. i do think that she is altruistic, but not to the extent of repeatedly sacrificing herself for others; esp since we have seen her place her harmful urges over people who love/have cared for her. flora is capable of being selfish. her constantly saving others at her expense isn’t (only) a result of her liking people, it is also a consequence of the little value she gives her own life. It is a request for redemption or for mental alleviation (death included).
i'm rr runaway and getting reminded of how i couldn't stand nico until the two last chapters LMAO. love josie, but her and gianna are the same level of bird for me (gianna maybe more), and i hated how she was never open to people that had none him longer, warning her about nico.
@aftercare thank youu<33
@aftercare ur sò sweet <3
@sacrificialamb both of y'all PLEASE keep ranting I love this
wait @esmxralda_ i have a question
@sacrificialamb I was the same when I was I'm highschool! I was a hopeless romantic to the core. But now (three years later) I'm more and more drown to moral complexity in characters. Like I want a character who will exhaust me from how layered they are
@sacrificialamb thank you again!!. This means so much to me so I appreciate you saying this a lot <333
@esmxralda_ i'd so read whatever you publish, i just know it would be amazing, you have an amazing ability to delve deep into characters from unbiased perspectives
i genuinely can't believe i'm having a debate with someone on whether throwing a rape victim's trauma in their face is worse than being petty to your half-sister your father hid from you
@sacrificialamb Celina had valid reason too, and people who say Nico is never wrong are just misogynistic. they were both wrong at times, I'm sure the author herself would acknowledge that and her characters were presented as broken people who make horrible decisions sometimes. dense people make me so angry sometimes
@aftercare you're so right omg. the point of nico is that he isn't an arguably 'good person ', so it's weird to defend everything he does because you view it as the only way he could love josie. also sabrina was snarky to lina, so it's not like celina was being mean for no reason, even if she was a bit overboard at times.
@sacrificialamb I knew this was a zookah reference as soon as I saw the announcement and had to read it I dont even know the argument ur talking abt but that's so stupid wtf..? no one is saying HAS to be a good character to love Josie, the whole point is he's morally grey. he is a bad character and some ppl js' wanna defend EVERYTHING he does celina will forever be my queen idk I wanted her to yell at her half sister lowk... I always wanted her to reveal the reason she hated Sabrina, cause she got the life Celina never had and I so wanted sabrina to understand cause Sabrina thought it was all about adrik. also the tiara scene- for a second I thought lina was abt to give Sabrina the tiara haha idk why. sorry I kinda strayed from the point but I agree 100% with both of you
hellooo saw ur comments on getaway just wanna say ily for it LOLLL ive noticed zookahs fanbase consists of a lot of people who are very misogynistic even if they dont mean to be, like if nico does smth wrong its excused and forgotten the moment he does something they portray as nice or hot, but god forbid celina does something wrong she’ll never get that grace lmaoooo so its refreshing to see ppl actually digging beneath the surface and not being plainly misogynistic………..looollll ur an inspiration ugh ly
@leilzze they have an issue with everything a woman does in this series, then the men can blow up the universe and it's 'sorry guys i folded ten chapters ago'
@esmxralda_ YES i loved this side to celina and i def think it was what her character shouldve been like rather than just a badass, which i love that dont get me wrong lolll, but i wouldve loved to see that depth be consistent throughout the whole book
@sacrificialamb this is my point omgomgomg. they complain when there is obvious character development (josie) and also complain when the character development is not so obvious (celina) like oh my days you guys just hate women lmao?????
How are you always making such good points omg. I love smart women
@esmxralda_ thank you so much!!! You as well <333 I'm really glad I found someone who kind of shares the same thoughts I do, especially when it comes to the entire patriarchy issue, and gender based double standards. There's such a lack of awareness around those topics, especially in books, and it breaks my heart that women keep perpetuating this rhetoric
@esmxralda_ ily too omg <3 you're so well spoken and you express yourself so wonderfully