lotf shit part 2

lotf 10/30

We read the second half of chap. 1 and chap. 2. I was the discussion leader and asked the questions. Jesse didn't do anything. Joshua only got his book that same day we discussed.

Me: Who do you think is the best leader and why?

Luke: The best leader of the group is Ralph. While Piggy is the most sensible, he is unable to command enough authority to maintain control over the boys. Jack is unfit to lead because his formal and well versed attitude is all a persona, as Jack displayed his inability to kill. Ralph has the attributes the two other contenders don't, assertiveness and ruthlessness, which seem to benefit his control over the crowd.

Me: The best leader might be Ralph or Jack. Jack is the leader of the choir and now hunters, but he is angry and strict, not very good for a group of young boys who are excited for no adults. Ralph is more lenient and wants to get things done. He wants to go home and proposes ideas while Jack only enforces the idea.

Joshua: The best leader for the group is a controversy between Jack or Ralph, Ralph seems to be the most suitable as he seems to want to get things finished and shows a democracy type of leadership by proposing ideas and making sure everyone wants it and doesn't enforce the ideas, While Jack is pretty much the opposite of this because he is very angry to a group of juveniles which isin't very ideal, while he also enforces the rules without the consent of every group member and his leadership shows a type of dictatorship, While Ralph is also assertive showing his dominance to control the crowd.

What do you think of Jack and Ralph's relationship?

Me: I find their relationship to be... somewhat suspicious. "They smiled at each other in a shy manner." That's a weird way to put it, Golding. "Ralph looked at Jacks gray shorts admiringly." Hmm? I don't know how to put it, but there is a creeping feeling. Not only that but when they first met, there was, "Ralph turned to him quickly. This was the voice of one who knew his own mind." Of course, there is plenty more evidence to prove this... underlying, I don't know what to call it but I don't think it's romantic and it doesn't fit for the 50s to be platonic. I have read the book and there is definitely more.

Luke: I do not view Ralph and Jack's relationship as romantic or close. Frankly, I perceive it as the contrary. Jack seems to be a very prideful person, one who doesn't forget. His frustration could be observed after the vote. However, the second he was appointed to a position in relative power by Ralph, the resentment seemed to fade away. Later on, Jack mentions how they should be proud of their English heritage. For someone who holds themselves and others so high, he seems to have instantly forgotten that he lost a vote almost unanimously, if it wasn't for his choir supporting him, to a complete stranger. However, he may have realised that his position is a blessing in disguise, as he could manipulate the leader of the group to make questionable decisions, with Ralph taking the fall.

Joshua deleted this comment so I couldn't get it when putting this chapter in but he wrote in size 80 letters: They gay

What do you think happened to the boy with the birthmark on his face?

Luke: I think the boy with the birthmark on his face died. Firstly, he could've been off somewhere in the forest when the fire burst out. He may have been set ablaze, trapped under a falling tree, impaled by shrapnel, or suffocated in the smoke. Secondly, nobody knew his whereabouts, signifying his position could be anywhere on the island. Another possibility is that he ventured too far into the ocean and was swept away. To add, he might have been in the forest adventuring where he was bitten by a venomous snake or insect, and succumbed to the toxins. A further possibility is that the boy with the birthmark was running and tripped, possibly hitting his head on a wide array of objects like rocks or wood, and dying or getting knocked out.

Me: He definitely burned alive. Periodt

Joshua: I suspect the boy with the birthmark on his face died

Do you think there is a beastie on the island?

Me: No, it is all child imagination. These are elementary children who still believe there are monsters under their beds. There's no way that a beast of some sort fits on an island plentiful of pigs. Also, Ralph called Africa a country. They are definitely doomed.

Luke: Yes, I do believe there is a beastie. The child who spotted the creature was in the dark, so they could have mistaken the outline for a different organism, or a giant creeper that looked like a snake. Another piece of evidence is that there seems to be no large animals inhabiting the island. With all the people making noise, destroying trees, and creating a fire, they were bound to stir some animal at any point. For example, the piglet Jack almost executed earlier. You could speculate that it strayed away from its parents or dwelling. However, not a single person noticed the sign of an adult pig. This means the piglet traveled extremely far from the home it lived in, or the parents were deceased. Is it likely that the parents died soon after the piglet was born, or could they have been eliminated by an external force?

Thoughts on Simon and/or Roger?

Me: Simon is a good boy. Hes weaker than the rest of the boys. Faints easily and also very small. Most likely at Ralph's shoulder. Roger doesn't speak much but when he does he has some good ideas. I find it peculiar that Roger and Simon share the same

Luke: I don't remember Roger at all. He likely had one or two actions and that was it. I believe he may be one of the choir boys, but can't be certain. If not a boy of the choir, Roger is one of the younglings that Piggy watches out for. Simon is a younger boy that is also smaller than the rest.