The New Doctor! A Doctor Who Alternate History Story

Part 44 - Interview - Ian Levine, Fall, 1993, Starburst Magazine

STARBURST: You were the money behind Millenium Productions, weren't you?

LEVINE:  Well, I was some of the money. A lot more than I actually intended, particularly with Monsters of Ness.

Mostly, I was recruiting and organizing the investors. Doctor Who had been around for a while, it had a lot of fans. Elton John was a fan. So was George Harrison. So I was in a position to reach out to people who were kindly disposed to the show and had some cash lying around and persuade them to invest in the show. I'd been in business for a long time, particularly the music business, and I had the reputation of being a man with a sound head on his shoulders, one who knew how to organize a project and turn a profit.

STARBURST:  Elton John and George Harrison were investors in Doctor Who?

LEVINE:  No! You can't say that. Investors, the preferred shareholders, limited partners, their identities were confidential. Still are. I'm just saying the show had a lot of fans, and some of them were quite well known. It doesn't mean that a particular person invested with Millenium.

But as I was saying, so people were willing to open the door when I knocked. There was a ... Shall we say... Confidence? Confidence that this was going to be a reliable investment. Not risk free of course, nothing is risk free. Everyone went in knowing they could lose their investment.

But it was a good risk. And of course, there's a certain cachet to the arts - music, film and television, that appeals to a certain mindset. And honestly, to think that you were investing in, that you actually owned a piece of Doctor Who, there's something to that. For a certain sort of outlook, it was like owning a piece of Trafalgar Square. It was an institution.

STARBURST:  How did you do?

LEVINE:  Oh we lost money (laughs). We lost a fair bit of money. It wasn't as bad as it could have been. There was a point at the end of July, early August, when it looked like we wouldn't be able to make an airdate, and if that had happened, the BBC would have withheld its payments, and that would have been a disaster. A real catastrophe, let me tell you. That would have been a very different situation.

But as it turned out, we ended up maybe twenty or thirty per cent in the hole, depends on how you calculate it.

And personally, as I said, I put too much in. I'm comfortable, but I don't consider myself a rich man, and this was a pretty deep tap as they say. I was carried away by enthusiasm. You're in the situation, things need to get done, time is short, you reach into your own pocket and figure it'll all come out right in the end (rueful chuckle) sometimes not so much.

STARBURST:  Why did you end up in the red?

LEVINE:   A couple of reasons. One was that we were just learning as we went. Look at Monsters of Ness and compare it to Volcano. It's just so much more polished. We were learning to put on a good show. Well, learning as you go, it's going to cost you more. No big deal, that's to be expected.

But the real reason, the ones who screwed us.... BBC Enterprises. I have to say it, they were bastards to us. Slimy bastards.

We talk about Creegan and Powell, and yes, they would have shoved us off a cliff without a second thought. And they did. But they also gave us a shot.

BBC Enterprises? They were the ones who stabbed us in the back, and kept on stabbing.

STARBURST:  How so?

LEVINE:  Okay, our financial model - it was based on BBC revenues. We were going to make this show for the BBC, and they'd pay us for it. That was our basic budget, fair enough yes. That's where we hoped to break even, maybe make a small profit, run a small deficit, but that was the baseline.

Now, where you make your money, that's in the collateral sales - the secondary licenses - international sales, merchandising, what have you. Do you know in movie theatres, they make their real money in selling popcorn and soda? Not the ticket sales?

So our hope, and our financial cushion, was that we were going to make our money, or cover our asses with sales to Canada, Australia, the Commonwealth, France, you name it.

Not the United States, that would have been splendid, but right from the start, they didn't want us there because the Daltenrey boys were trying to market their movie to Hollywood. Nothing must get in the way of that, don't you know. Well, I think their head was up their arse there, the Daltenreys would have had an easier time if they were actually trying to sell with a live show that people could turn on their tellys for. But that was the BBC Enterprises position, it was well known, and we respected it. Maybe we had some hope of changing their mind along the way. But that was what we were going into.

Thing is, we figured, and they as much as told us, that we had a decent shot with Australia and Canada, New Zealand and South Africa now that apartheid was over, Hong Kong. Canada, if we could have had Canada, our financial position would have been completely different. Maybe we would have had a second season. At the very least, we wouldn't have lost our shirts so badly.

I'd go to these meetings, and we'd sit around a Boardroom table, and we'd go round and round and round. They'd never quite say no, not outright. But that 'yes', that damned 'yes' was always just out of reach. They never intended to say 'yes', the bastards. I have memos from that time, internal memos they were sending each other. They were just stringing us along.

They had their eyes on the big prize, Daltenreys movie, and we were just wasting their time. We were the poor relations, looking for a handout. Show em to the back door and shoo them off. Well, where's your fucking movie now? Is it in the theatres? Can I pay fifty quid, go down and watch it in an air conditioned venue with surround sound, and wash it all down with popcorn and soda? Eh? Damned bunts.

They gave us nothing. We couldn't sell outside England. We couldn't release any merchandise. And once the BBC passed on a second season... We couldn't even get a meeting. They had no interest in 'diluting their brand' and letting us sell a 'dead show.' Whatever that means. They would have made money off us. They could have made money off us. But then they'd have to share it with us. Better to strangle us and keep on raking in 100% of the old series. Bastards.

If we had succeeded wildly, beyond all expectations, they would have been right in there taking their cut. If we'd managed to get to a second season, then they would have been along for the ride. Oh yes. They would have been cashing the cheques. But they weren't ever going to lift a finger for us to do anything.

Right now, I can't even get a VHS deal to help dig us out of this hole. They won't sign off. Pathetic, right.

STARBURST:  You sound so bitter.

LEVINE:  Do I? Yeah, well, I feel my bank account's pain. It's a thing when it's your money. So yes, there's a certain amount of frustration.

One thing I'll say for BBC Enterprises, they saved us from bankruptcy.

STARBURST:   How so?

LEVINE:   By being ignorant bunts. Millenium Productions sole asset is its New Doctor - the serials mostly, and property and intellectual rights collateral to it. Well, that's dependent upon BBC Enterprises granting licensing permissions to make use of it, which they don't. So technically, none of it is worth a penny, not until they say yes. So there's no point in bankruptcy, the assets are worthless. Who is going to buy under those circumstances. The only chance any creditor has is to leave it as is and hope someone can strike a deal with BBC Enterprises.

STARBURST:   Is there any chance?

LEVINE:   Who knows. I'm still in the game. Maybe someday they'll pull their head out their arses. Or there'll be a change in management or something. Who knows.